( ESNUG 509 Item 1 ) -------------------------------------------- [09/13/12]
Subject: 78 percent of frontend USERS see Synopsys-SpringSoft as BAD
AART'S PATENT LAWYERS: With $61 M (80%) of SpringSoft's $76 M in sales
being in digital RTL debug tools, it's no surprise that a great number of
Novas Verdi/Siloti/Certitude/ProtoLink users spoke up on this survey. To
make a long story short, 78% of frontend users are NOT happy.
For 209 frontend users:
"This SpringSoft-Synopsys merger is (choose one) GOOD news,
BAD news, NEUTRAL news for my company because (say why):"
GOOD: ### 7%
BAD: ####################################### 78%
NEUTRAL: ####### 15%
Details on the frontend users who gave comments:
BAD. Pricing on the Novas digital debug tools will go up.
: ##################### 42%
BAD. Reduces competition, increases Synopsys EDA monopoly
: ################ 31%
BAD. SNPS ignores us because we're not a big $$$ customer
: #### 8%
BAD. Verdi (deBussy) will be made CDNS/MENT incompatible
: ################# 33%
BAD. SpringSoft had great support, SNPS is Solvnet Hell
: ########### 22%
BAD. Aart will kill off Verdi in favor of DVE in VCS
: ######## 17%
BAD. Aart will kill off DVE in favor of Verdi in VCS
: # 2%
BAD. Aart will kill off a Certitude they don't understand
: ### 6%
BAD. Aart will kill off ProtoLink for a Synplicity clone
: ### 6%
GOOD. Now we'll get free Verdi (deBussy) tools in VCS!
: ### 6%
GOOD. Maybe SNPS will keep FSDB open to CDNS and MENT!
: ## 4%
NEUTRAL. Verdi support will go down, but we'll get free Verdi!
: ## 4%
NEUTRAL. We don't care because we use Axiom Designer instead
: ## 4%
It's interesting that 42% of users see Aart buying Magma and SpringSoft
NOT for their EDA tools -- but instead as a clever back door ploy to
increase SNPS prices overall by buying out all the 2nd Tier vendors.
And, for the first time that I've ever seen in any open-ended survey about
any EDA merger, for the first time some users (3 frontend and 2 backend)
voiced unprompted concerns about SNPS/Aart's patent lawsuits! Wow!
BAD. We're concerned about Aart getting SpringSoft's 34 patents
: ###### 6%
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
BAD NEWS.
Don't want a bigger SNPS getting SpringSoft and Ciranova patents.
Less tool competition. More lawsuits.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Bad.
I'm troubled about less competition coming from bought out rivals
and patent lawsuits for those who won't take Aart's money.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
BAD.
With 2nd Tier EDA vendors (Magma, SpringSoft) knocked out, we're
forced to buy from the 1st Tier EDA vendors at 1st Tier prices.
Plus worried about Aart's lawyers with those additional patents.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Bad News. If every promising EDA tool is under Synopsys, it shuts
out innovation and decent pricing. To use Synopsys tools, one needs
to be as big as Qualcomm or Cisco. Typically small semiconductor
companies do not get attention and/or we're priced out of Synopsys.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
BAD - consolidates a lot of our tools into one company (SNPS) known
not to care about cost to customers.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
BAD BAD BAD NEWS
I love DeBussy for waveform viewing, clock tree viewing, chasing X's
in gate sims, and tracking through otherwise unreadable Verilog IP.
It is a tremendous productivity enhancer for me. I expect it to be
priced out of range now.
I hate Synopsys, their support, their predatory pricing, their
holier-than-thou attitude, and now the fact they have purchased
nearly everything I liked and used. Virage (ARC), Hardi/HAPS,
Synplicity, Magma, and now Springsoft.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
BAD news: it severely stifles competition by further consolidating
power to one dominant EDA supplier.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
BAD News. Less competition.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Bad News - no competition, no pricing/performance leverage.
Loss of Verdi compatibility across multiple simulators.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
BAD news for our group because of concerns on support quality, our
ability to influence new features, and license pricing.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
BAD: although it is one less vendor to deal with, I don't like the
SNPS-CDNS duopoly that EDA is becoming. Still, I guess it could be
worse; two competing providers is better than one SNPS monopoly.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Good news because we no longer must deal with 2 different vendors.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
This SpringSoft/Synopsys merger is BAD news for my company because
we lose a neutral backend vendor and a neutral debug vendor.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
BAD - I fear we must purchase Synopsys sim tools to use Verdi.
I also fear the Verdi-OVM development might stop or cost more
via a license.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
BAD news since Verdi will likely increase in license cost.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
BAD. I have been using Debussy/Verdi for 14 years and I can't work
without it. I am afraid Synopsys may even kill Verdi or will not
keep it open such that Cadence simulator would not be able to dump
waveforms. I know SNPS tried to buy them 12 years ago, but Novas
was not selling back then. I am worried.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
BAD news
Novas has been a great company to work with for the past 16 years.
They have been very responsive to our needs and have provided
excellent results. Their API interface enables their tools to be
incorporated into other industry standard tools and has become
the defacto standard.
I'm concerned that once $nop$y$ gets control of Novas the support
for non-SNPS tools will be compromised.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
BAD. We mostly use Verdi for debug purposes. Our biggest concern is
whether Synopsys will keep the FSDB format being available for open
consumption, and continue to enhance it. I can see Synopsys closing
FSDB off to be used by Synopsys-only tools. This would be bad news
for all the tools that use FSDB files (power analysis, simulation,
debugging etc.)
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Good News: Maybe FSDB will become the waveform database standard.
Maybe they'll open it up.
Good News: Maybe all the coolness in Verdi will find its way into
VCS, DC, ICC, PT.
Bad News: Without competition, R&D on debuggers will once again be
put in last place for spending.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
This are very bad news for the verification and RTL design community.
It is clear Synopsys bought SpringSoft for Laker and has no interest
in Novas tools. Verdi was a unique as it was focused only in one
thing, making RTL debug easier. If Synopsys was interested in it,
they would have already done it in DVE.
I hope that Synopsys will be smart enough to keep the Verdi dumpers
(FSDB) and their re-newed NPI that was great assistance for third
party tools and local CAD.
The SNPS/CDNS/MENT tripod will always win; thanks to Synopsys for
cleaning out all Second Tier competition.
My bet for next move is Mentor buying Atrenta.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
GOOD news - I find Verdi/Siloti a much better experience than DVE,
and now everyone expects that we'll get them at a better (bundled)
price! We expect SNPS to keep the file formats/file readers open
for Cadence/Mentor.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
NEUTRAL. Like Verdi better than DVE, but forced to use DVE because
its free with VCS. SNPS can make DVE feel like Verdi (good), but
SNPS will most likely kill Verdi (bad).
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
BAD news! We might lose our free DVE option!
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
NEUTRAL but could go either way. I'm a front-end designer mainly.
We use VCS for simulations, but I have never been very happy with
Synopsys' DVE tool. Terrible user interface. I am hoping Verdi
has enough of a following that Syonpsys will invest in it as their
own product. Keep Verdi alive! No one here would cry if Synopsys
killed off DVE.
BAD because the price for Verdi will almost certainly go up.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
BAD NEWS
I may be wrong about this, but I am concerned Synopsys will just toss
Verdi out and everyone will have to move to the VCS DVE debugger.
However, Springsoft was struggling to get Verdi to work well with
Synopsys VCS, and I suspect SpringSoft was having the same issue
with the other simulators - I was helping them debug some issues.
Integrating Springsoft with VCS more closely could help them solve
a big issue for them - interactive debugging of System Verilog code.
Single stepping through SV code requires close integration with
the simulator, and it is really the only reason I started using DVE
recently.
If Synopsys decides to keep Verdi and integrate it better with VCS
and add the DVE capabilities of better interactive debugging of SV
code, it will be good for me.
My company has VCS. If it didn't, I'd be REALLY BUMMED now.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
GOOD News hoping we can continue to use Verdi rather than DVE.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
I started using Debussy/Verdi nearly 10 years ago when my (previous)
company found out that VCS licenses are cheaper. At that time VCS
had a shitty GUI (debugger) and we used Debussy for our debug. When
DVE improved to the level of being usable we gave up most of our
Verdi licenses and shifted to DVE. There are still many features
in Verdi which are missing from DVE. So if the aquisition means
that DVE will improve and absorb all good features from Verdi I will
say GOOD NEWS for me. If it means Verdi is killed and I am left
with DVE I will say BAD NEWS.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
If SNPS throws out DVE and bolts Verdi on as the VCS GUI then
HALLELUJAH!.
I do lots of FPGA debug on large FPGA prototypes and if SNPS throws
out Identify for Protolink so that we can actually debug more than
one FPGA at a time, and dump more than 100 cycles, then HALLELUJAH!
Unfortunately FPGA tools are low priority at SNPS so while I'd guess
integrating Protolink is on the road map, it's a loooog way off.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
BAD news. The customer support will be degraded.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Bad - Integration of Verdi products with other simulators may be hurt.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
BAD news. Why should Synopsys support Verdi for non-Synopsys tools?
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
This is BAD news if Verdi/Siloti tools are no longer well supported,
or made not to work with simulators other than those provided by
Synopsys, or if the price rises substantially. The Novas tools
provide an excellent debugging environment.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
BAD NEWS because we use Novas tools with a site license.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
This is BAD news. :-(
- Springsoft is not anymore a "simulator-neutral" company. Using
Novas tools with NC-sim/Questasim will become difficult (just
like using Specman with Modelsim today)...
- I have very good relationships with Springsoft guys whereas I
have bad ones with Synopsys people
On the other hand, I guess there are some small good news inside:
- VCS debugger will finally integrate Verdi.
- We may get less bugs in Synopsys DW IP if they use Certitude.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
NEUTRAL: we have just started looking into Springsoft tools, not
yet interested in purchasing them, no impact on our business.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Bad news, for users of Verdi in other vendors simulators.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
BAD.
For the RTL debug tools users this is not great news since other
simulator support will probably vanish as cooperation would be less
likely now.
As for the price, $406 M seems overpriced given Springsoft's $87 M
annual revenues (2012 proj.) and $20 M in net income (2012 proj.)
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
NEUTRAL - SpringSoft has always been very easy and flexible to work
with. Certainly once they are assimilated into Synopsys they will
lose some of that flexibility. That said, SpringSoft always seemed
like a good target for someone to acquire, and of the Big 3, I'm
happiest that it was Synopsys who acquired them.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Bad, I think everyone loses. There will now be no "feature rich"
wave form viewer on the market. Even worse, EDA startups will have
issues getting a wave form viewer for their tool and may have to
create their own instead of working on their core technology.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
NEUTRAL news.
EDA vendors like to have the debug environment tied to the simulator.
This means to debug you need to take up a simulator license which I
view as bad. I hope Synopsys doesn't do that to Verdi.
The good side is that it is one more license that I need, but it is
a cheaper license. Verdi doesn't care which simulator was used. I
hope that doesn't change.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
BAD news because SpringSoft was easy to deal with on the Novas stuff.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Neutral - my questions:
(a) will Synopsys continue to sell Verdi tools as an added license?
(b) will Synopsys incorporate the Verdi capabilities into DVE or
replace DVE with Verdi as a value-added to VCS with intent to
capture more market share for the VCS System Verilog simulator?
(c) what happens to Mentor/Cadence Verdi users? Will Synopsys
still sell Verdi licenses to users of competing simulators?
- Cliff Cummings, consultant
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
BAD news. As a small company we have very little weight pushing for
new features or bug fixes from Synopsys. Novas was always responsive.
All our support cases will now go into the SNPS SolvNet black hole.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
BAD news - will SNPS continue to support Verdi for Cadence/Mentor?
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
NEUTRAL for my company as we're not Springsoft customers.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
BAD news -
We were thinking about getting Certitude. There's nothing else
quite like it on the market. I don't believe it will survive the
acquisition (or at least survive it in a simulator-neutral form,
which is what we need.)
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Bad news.
Certitude was really a refreshing breeze bringing something new and
interesting. We have yet to explore all its abilities. I do not
believe anyone in Synopsys can understand it and promote it.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
BAD: we could lose out here; Synopsys will be less inclined to keep
tools like Verdi and Certitude simulator neutral which is vital to
us (we don't use VCS).
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
BAD for users (and innovation) if Certitude is discontinued, although
my company currently doesn't use it.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Neutral for the FPGA world. ProtoLink stunk and will likely get
killed in a similar fashion to Identify Pro. Verdi and Siloti are
uncommon tools in FPGA land and won't become common anytime soon.
What exactly did Synopsys get for $306 M that they couldn't develop
for much less?
This is a Taiwanese company. I'm sure they stole or misrepresented
something.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
BAD news
- from a FPGA debug technology point of view, the only two companies
in town were Springsoft (ProtoLink) and Synopsys' soon to be official
HAPS smart debug solution. Now there is a monopoly in this area.
Cadence has nothing for RPP debug and now can't partner w/ Springsoft.
BAD news
- from a RTL waveform tool point of view, now Synopsys could decide
thar Verdi (Springsoft) does not to support Cadence Incisive. That
means that we could have different waveform debuggers on different
simulators, which would be annoying to end users. This could even
be the end of Springsoft's "works on all platforms" approach.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
BAD news for my company because one of the few VITAL cross-vendor
digital debug tools has now been absorbed by the SNPS Borg.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
The SpringSoft-Synopsys merger is NEUTRAL news because we mostly use
Axiom Designer for Verilog/SystemVerilog debug. We do have a few
SpringSoft Debussy licenses as backup. Debussy/Verdi is definitely
the best debug tool on the market. I hope Synopsys leaves it alone
and lets the SpringSoft team keep doing whatever they were doing to
produce such a great tool.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
NEUTRAL, I use the Axiom Designer tool.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Related articles:
But the backend USERS are evenly split on Synopsys-SpringSoft
And 86 percent USERS overal are NEUTRAL on Synopsys-Ciranova
While 52 percent EDA RIVALS see Synopsys-SpringSoft as GOOD
And 46 percent of EDA RIVALS see Synopsys-Ciranova as BAD
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