( ESNUG 559 Item 2 ) -------------------------------------------- [04/22/16]
Subject: Anirudh on CDNS Innovus, SNPS ICC2, Atoptech, MENT Olympus PnR
DAC'15 Troublemakers Panel in San Francisco, CA
Cooley: Anirudh, what's it like to take on IC Compiler II?
Anirudh: Well, I think it's another big opening in place and route.
For a long time customers hadn't had a choice. So it's a lot
of fun for me. I think it's a lot of fun for Cadence to finally
provide a choice in digital PnR which is credible, which is
better. And I think we are having...
Cooley: So you're doing it just for fun?
Anirudh: Well fun is definitely one part of it. I think Cadence
has to. I think over the last few years being able to provide
a real solution in digital is a very exciting thing to do. And
that's what the customers want. Historically we were always
good in what I called mixed signal designs and we continue to
expand there. But in the last year we have done very well in
the top 10 or top 20 customers.
Cooley: So what I don't hear you saying is you're taking seats,
winning benchmarks nothing like that. Just fun.
Anirudh: Of course, of course. I think what we are doing is a two
part thing right? One is a mixed signal part -- which we are
solidifying our position. And the other part -- which is more
interesting -- is taking marketshare in the top 10 customers.
And this is what Cadence had not done in the past, maybe 5 years
ago.
But if you look back 1 year or so or the last 1 to 2 years, we
have taken a lot of marketshare in the top 10. And those are
guys who spend a lot of money. We have a lot of designs that
do high end digital.
Cooley: They're also using IC Compiler I/II also, aren't they?
You're not necessarily displacing them?
Anirudh: People are using IC Compiler, yes. That should not be
a surprise. But the question is are they using more Cadence?
And there is a healthy balance happening in the top 10 which
was not happening before?
Cooley: I did a survey where I asked the question what was that
"new win" that you guys talked about in your earnings call.
Everyone came back and said it was Apple in ESNUG 547 #7 -- so
you're going on record saying you have Apple?
Anirudh: I never even said that word, John. I don't know where
you come up with it. So I think we are doing very well at
what I would consider the top 10 customers. We're taking a lot
of market share in top 10 customers. And that is very important
for Cadence to do, to demonstrate that the customers all feel
they have a viable PnR solution at the high end
Cooley: Jim, in digital place and route. Out of the 4 players
Synopsys, Cadence, Mentor and Atoptech -- rank them in order
from best to worst.
Hogan: Well, I think that well. I think if you went back a
year ago Atoptech got the jump on folks, right? And then
we saw the Synopsys guys come out with their ICC2 solution,
and recently we see the Cadence Innovus solution, right?
Mentor, God bless you Joe, but I don't think your Olympus-SoC
plays very often.
So I think it's going to end up being a PnR battle over the
long haul between Cadence and Synopsys. That's what I think.
Cooley: You don't think the Sierra Olympus tool has a chance?
Or nor does Atoptech?
Hogan: Look man you've got to find a total PnR solution. I
mean I like to sit here and say Tanner's placer propels them
to the front of the class -- but I don't think so. And then
you know with Eric Thune [head of Atoptech sales ] sitting
here, the Atop guy, he know it's a struggle to compete against
Cadence and Synopsys. I wouldn't want to be in that position
personally. So I think over time the dominant players win.
Every market allows two players. Now who's first and who's
second, we'll see.
Cooley: Gary, the same question.
Hogan: But Cadence and Synopsys will be in that one-two race.
Cooley: Ok.
Gary: Actually, I pretty much agree with Hogan. The new
Cadence place and route tools are fairly impressive. And
they were the ones a decade ago that were lagging and the
ones that were allowing PnR market share being taken away
from them a decade ago.
So Atoptech still, in many applications, is the best tool;
but we're starting to play now where it's the big vendors
versus the small guys.
Cooley: Joe, since you have a dog in this fight, what would
you want to say?
Sawicki: You look at the PnR markets and it's "interesting" in
that quotable painful aspect of the word. You know there
are 4 players out there you do chip design with. And that
both is an opportunity as well as a pain point in terms of
how rapidly you can make transitions.
The only thing I can say is Olympus-SoC has 3 of the top 10;
who are going to be talking in our DAC booth about their use
of our tools. So we're getting good adoption. We've got
10 nanometer designs being worked on today. We've taped out
numerous 14 nm designs. Are we in the #1 or #2 position?
My God, that would be delusional for me to say. But I do
think we do have good technology and we've got some good
usage going on out there.
Cooley: Ok alright. Anirudh?
Anirudh: Well, I agree with Jim and Gary. [audience laughs]
Cooley: What a surprise.
Anirudh: So let me say it a different way. So I personally
believe that there were a lot of other PnR tools in market
in the last few years. [SNPS, MENT, ATOP] And I primarily
believe that's because Cadence was not doing a good job.
So once Cadence starts doing a good job, it will come down
to Cadence vs. Synopsys as a whole. And I think that Cadence
is more than competitive, and I believe we are state of the
art.
And the Cadence lead will also go beyond just digital tools.
I mean not just the flow has to be integrated with synthesis,
P&R, and signoff -- not just a point tool -- in the end
either you are doing highly complicated mixed signal designs,
or you are doing high end digital designs. If you're doing
highly complicated mixed signal, you have to also interact
with analog -- so this game is a lot more complicated than it
used to be 10 years ago with a lot of players providing point
tools. You have to have a very good flow. You have to have
a very good integration with verification, plus with analog
implementation (i.e. Virtuoso), and that's where the game is
going. So it's not one specific feature nor specific tool.
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